An ongoing drought in Chad, forest fires in California, floods in Spain: this year, environmental disasters around the world have shown what continued global warming means.Image: trapezoid
interview
The United Nations World Climate Conference is about to enter a tumultuous postponement phase. This frustrated ETH climate policy scientist Anthony Patt. Still, as he said in the interview, there is hope for climate protection. Even in the United States, climate change denier Donald Trump will soon rule the country.
COP29, the United Nations climate conference in Azerbaijan, was originally scheduled to end on Friday but was postponed due to the inability of industrialized and emerging countries to reach an agreement. Environmental researchers calculate that industrialized countries must provide emerging countries a trillion dollars a year for climate protection and adaptation. However, rich countries, including Switzerland, do not want to commit such large sums of money. Are you disappointed?
Anthony Pat: Sure, it was frustrating, but I didn't expect anything else. My expectations for the UN climate change conference have never been high. However, it is important that it happens. Too little financial aid is still better than none, even if it's not enough to put the world on track.
Where is the world heading now with regard to climate protection?
We are not standing still, we are moving in the right direction – but we are doing it too slowly.
Many people didn’t even notice what was happening at the climate conference. Is it because of the wars in the Middle East, Ukraine, and Sudan? Or do people suffer from climate fatigue?
Voter interest in certain political issues continues to surge. In 2019, climate change is one of the top concerns for people. Then the COVID-19 pandemic hit and the topic fell by the wayside. It is the Great War that is attracting much attention now. Given this, it is understandable and to be expected that climate change no longer receives as much attention. We have to live with it and learn to deal with it.
To people
Anthony Patt is from the United States and has been Professor of Climate Policy, Climate Protection and Climate Adaptation at ETH Zurich since 2013. He is also Deputy Director of the Institute for Environmental Decision Making. In his research, he attempts to develop policy approaches that can effectively eliminate greenhouse gas emissions caused by ordinary people. Pat therefore examines not only our political and economic systems, but also people's beliefs about climate protection. He also examines the question of why people publicly support or oppose certain approaches to climate policy.
How should climate activists, environmental groups and the Green Party respond to this decline in interest?
In any case, shouting “climate protection” loudly will not help. Instead, they now have to prove that their solution strategies actually work. Because that's what they do. We can observe that relying on climate-friendly technologies is increasingly worthwhile. For economic reasons. In recent years, there has been a shift in the energy sector away from oil, natural gas and gasoline and toward renewable energy generation such as solar energy. Batteries as storage media are also becoming cheaper. Electric vehicles are on the rise. These positive developments can no longer be stopped, even if they are slow.
“If you just shout 'climate protection' loudly, that's not helpful.”
Not even Donald Trump, the climate change denier who will lead the United States, the country largely responsible for global warming?
Of course, nothing positive can be expected from Washington in terms of climate policy over the next four years. Trump could slow down the transition to electric vehicles and renewable energy — which would, of course, be harmful. But I believe that not even he can stop the transformation that is already underway. We have reached a turning point.
What makes you so sure?
The largest investment in solar and wind energy in recent years happens to be in central US states that are governed by Republicans and clearly voted for Trump. It makes sense: they have lots of land and strong winds. It would be a waste of money not to install large solar systems and wind turbines there.
“Of all the U.S. states that voted for Trump, they have invested the most in solar and wind energy in recent years.”
These states are certainly not using climate goals to explain the expansion of renewable energy, are they?
Of course not, they say they do it for financial reasons. But in the end, reasoning doesn't matter as long as transformation occurs. If it's easier and more economical to act in a climate-friendly way, so much the better. We only have problems when people don't invest in certain technologies for purely ideological reasons. However, we are not there yet today – and hopefully we never will be.
“We only have problems when certain technologies are not invested in for purely ideological reasons.”
Authoritarian and conservative forces are on the rise, and the Greens are losing voters. People around the world no longer seem interested in the climate debate. why is that?
Higher energy prices are never popular. They tend to hit lower-income families harder. France is a perfect example.
Positive or negative?
France learned something new. In 2022, President Emmanuel Macron wants to boost the energy transition by raising taxes on fossil fuels. People protested on a large scale. Last year, France made a big push for wind energy, passing a law requiring photovoltaic systems on all new buildings and developing a new system to provide incentives for the purchase of electric cars. For example, low-income people can receive discounts on leasing new electric vehicles. The smaller the electric car, the lower the income and the highest subsidies. Not only was this system socially acceptable, it was also extremely successful.
Anthony Patt is Professor of Climate Policy, Climate Protection and Adaptation at ETH Zurich.Image: zvg
France has climbed 12 places in the annual climate rankings released by climate protection organization Deutsche Watch. Switzerland, on the other hand, dropped 12 places and is currently ranked 33rd. Does this surprise you?
No, that doesn't surprise me. In 2023, Switzerland will elect a parliament with a middle-class majority, and federal MP Albert Rösti from the Conservative Party will become Minister of Environment, Transport and Energy. Climate policy is not a top priority for conservatives, and one can assume they will use the legal space to prioritize other goals. This is correspondingly reflected in Switzerland's climate ranking.
This summer, voters approved the electricity law. Doesn’t this mean that Switzerland’s climate ranking will rise in the coming years?
Unfortunately I think less about it. The Electricity Bill will only ensure that we stay on the current course. This is going in the right direction, but as I said, too slow.
'Climate policy is not a priority for conservatives'
Why can’t the Electricity Bill move faster?
On the one hand, because it is far less ambitious than the approach taken by France. By law, we only require solar systems for new buildings larger than 300 square meters. France’s plan to make solar energy mandatory for all new buildings has failed to pass our parliament. On the other hand, there is also a lot of deterioration in climate protection in Switzerland.
For example, rejecting the biodiversity initiative?
For example. The Federal Council's biodiversity plan has also had little success. Furthermore, the Federal Council and Parliament are already considering removing incentives for the switch to electric vehicles, although this transition has only just begun. But things are also looking bad due to the federal government's austerity programme. If the Federal Council actually removes a significant portion of funding from building programs that support people transitioning from oil heating to heat pumps, it will undermine the progress made so far. This approach is very successful though because it is socially acceptable: 90% of people who replaced oil heating systems now have heat pumps installed.
Therefore, they are pinning their hopes on the transformation of the energy sector and transportation.
Yes, because we can reduce emissions by 70% with heat pumps and electric cars. And if they don't significantly restrict our freedom, or we have to change our behavior. That's the lucky situation we're actually in: not everyone has to change their behavior. It is enough if we rely on the right technology. This is almost possible if we invest in socially acceptable systems now.
More information about the United Nations World Climate Conference:
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